I watched the Education Debate tonight online and it was definitely interesting to hear each of the candidate's points of view. Like Greg said, we have not heard much about their stance on education in their debates, and this was a good way to hear more about what changes we could expect in our student's education. Tonight I learned Obama's and McCain's plans for the future and it was interesting. They discussed standards, assessments, community service, and research, among many other topics. One of the most interesting things I heard tonight was in regards to health care. I was shocked when Linda Darling-Hammond, Obama's education advisor, said that health care was important to our student's education. She said that because some students do not have health care, they miss school which can put them even farther behind. I had never really thought about health care playing an important role in our students' education. Did anyone else hear anything that stuck out to you during the education debate that was on www.edweek.org? I am curious to hear what you all thought about the debate and how that impacted your decision to vote. Did anything you hear make your decision easier or more difficult, and why? Thanks everyone!
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Thanks, Amanda, for getting this started. Hopefully some of your fellow interns watched and will weigh in as well. If you couldn't catch the debate live tonight, it will be available as an archived webcast beginning tomorrow (10/22) at noon on www.edweek.org. The debate featured John McCain's top education adviser, Lisa Graham Keegan, and Barack Obama's education adviser, Linda Darling-Hammond.
Amanda, I could not agree with you more. I heard a little bit about health care in one of my classes at ISU. I realized how important it was for kids to be in attendance at school when I was tutoring for C&I 209 last year. My tutoree was absent so many times and he missed out on so much instruciton in just that one half hour, I can't imagine a whole day...all the time!!! The thing that really shocked me was each of their stances on No Child Left Behind. I did not realize that McCain was totally for NCLB with the standards and assessments, and to keep these in place. He believed that the strongest feature of this was the ability to see how eacch school was doing. I somewhat agree to this because, to a sense, teacher's should teach to standards, but only to a point. When it gets to the point that teachers are cutting out on "teachable moments" and life long skills, this is where I would draw the line. I mostly agree with Obama's point of view on NCLB. I like how it was stated that he believes in the goals and he wants to close the achievement gaps, but did not say that he wanted to stress too much on the standards. He might use them to an extent, but will not let teachers stress about the issue. He really focused on getting high qualified teachers, and by doing this, there should not be much need for NCLB if the teachers are doing their jobs correctly. Overall, this was a really interesting debate to watch becasue I knew a lot about the topics they were talking about and I really felt like I need to put my imput in, as a teacher, and vote!
Despite the complications I had with the debate pausing and getting annoyed with the fact that they were going over their 2 minute limit, I thought the debate was great to listen to considering that neither candidate mentioned this topic very much. The debate included a lot of questions with little time to explain so there were a lot of topics mentioned that was hard to hear the full story on each. I like to hear how each candidate promises to do this and promise to that, but I really want to know what each candidate will follow through on because it reminds me of false promises. But each candidate has stronger points and the debate went back on forth on issues such as the importance of education, parental involvement, achievement gap, teacher preparation and more. One thing that I found was interesting is the discussion on whether teachers should get paid more for higher student achievement. McCain supports that teachers should get paid more but principals should decide and the money would come from federal funding. Obama on the other hand would reward for the progress made by teachers and would be a part of career ladder where they would have expert mentors to help gain knowledge. These teachers would have evidence that there is excellence in the classroom and makes a great contribution to student’s achievement. I thought this was interesting because we are in a program where out mentors are supposed to be the best of the best but I know some of us would think otherwise and I do not know what would be the best way to go about rewarding teachers that have higher achieving students compared to teachers that do not show any progress. I do not even know which candidate I would vote for on this issue on the way it was described because I do not think it was explained very well, I just never heard this question being brought up before.
First of all, I agree with you Amanda. I have a student in my classroom that has missed a lot of class because of health problems and his mother's health problems. I see how far behind the student gets especially with the reading and math series that we use where there is a different lesson everyday. I did not realize how much health care plays into education until my experience with this student and the debate. By the time we have caught the student up, he is out missing 3 of the 5 days of the week again and falling farther behind. So I know in many cases health might not be the issue that is causing students to fall behind, but I definitely agree that it has to be addressed and taken care of.
Another thing I noticed while watching the debate this afternoon was the candidates’ discussion about Teach for America. I am going to put out a disclaimer because I have friends in this program, I believe it does a lot of good for the high needs schools, and I do not want to take away from the amazing things that this program does. I do however; want to look at the way this program was brought up in context of the debate. I think both representatives spent a lot of time talking about professional development opportunities, highly qualified teachers, and investing in long term projects. However Teach for America (TFA) brings in candidates without educational backgrounds who only have to commit for 2 years. Like I said before I know the amazing things this programs does, but I just thought it was contradictory for Lisa to question Linda why she was not going to put more funding into TFA. There was mention of more funding to train qualified teachers in these districts and it might just be me, but I thought bringing TFA into the picture contradicted a few things that were said.
One last point that I want to bring up was that Lisa said near the end of the debate that the question that has to be answered was, "How do we focus on kids?" I think that is a great question that needs to be answered and I also think it is a question that cannot be answered when looking at NCLB. NCLB is full of accountability, standards, and I think it takes away from individuality. Lisa even mentioned finding out what resources each individual student needs and bringing those resources into the schools they are at. I also think this is a great idea, but many lower income communities are going to need a lot of resources for their students, especially when you are looking at English Language Learners. I think that if you keep NCLB in place, you are almost never going to look at individual needs. Students are always compared to others. Lisa even mentioned that, that tests need to allow students to be compared to other students. I do not find this necessarily true. I know there are cases where students in one district would go home with a higher grade, and turn the same work in in another district and receive a much lower grade. I am not saying there should not be a national standard, but students do not need to be compared to others. There are students at all ends of the spectrum, I think diversity should be welcomed and there should not be an attempt to make it extinct.
I hope whoever is voted into office takes the problems of our education system as seriously as they would the economy, without educated people, we cannot make educated choices and decisions.
This debate for me was really eye opening. Over the summer I had to write a report on McCain's and Obama's stand on education. Using the information from their websites I felt like they were very general statements. The debate was extremely informative and made my decision much easier. One thing that really stood out about me, especially during the beginning of the debate, was how every time McCain's advisor, Keegan, was asked a question, she mentioned Arizona in what seemed like every other sentence. I understand how this was her frame of reference, however I would have been interested to hear her expand and generalize her comments to the rest of the country. In reference to your comment about health care, I never really though about it either, but it does make a lot of sense. To come to school kids have to be healthy and with the economy in the state it is today, many parents cannot afford health care. I wish that this debate would have been broadcasted nationally because education is a concern every one should be aware of. As the ladies say, we as a general public keep giving the candidates a hard time about not focusing enough light on the topic of education, but it may not be because they are not speaking about it, but because the media is not publicizing it the way they should. Education effects everybody and should going to be a major factor in peoples vote.
I watched the debate, and the whole time I was thinking how important this would be for all Americans to see. Education has been something that has not really been the top priority of any debate, and has not really been discussed in detail. After watching this debate, I really was able to realize the different views and beliefs of each candidate has for education specifically.
I think that both candidates do a good job of putting education a priority and acknowledging it as an importance. From the debate, I really was able to focus on the parts of education in the election that really affects me.
The first topic that I focused on was what the candidates will do for teacher preparation and support. McCain wants to reward teachers with high student performance by money. In all actually this sounds great. I would love to get money based on the success rate of my students, because I do put a lot of time in effort into my students to allow for them to succeed. However, the more I thought about this issue, the more I realized how unfair this truly is. What happens when an excellent teacher has a really troubled student, who does not succeed? Do they not get paid for all their efforts, because that student did not have high grades or performances? And on the other end of the spectrum, what happens when a poor teacher has a student that is gifted and succeeds? Is that truly fair that a teacher does not really work hard, and yet still has a successful student? When thinking in this way, I realized that I do not agree with McCain in this aspect of teacher preparation. Another question that I have is where are we going to get this money to pay for the merit pay? We are in enough money problems as it is now, and this is no way to solve it. I really like Obama stance for preparing teachers. He wants to have the profession of teaching into a career builder, and have a career leader. He would like to have ongoing professional opportunities, mentors, and PDS schools (similar to ours). I think that this is so beneficial to the future of education. You are not going to have great teachers by bribing them to work hard, so they can get money out of it. You are going to have great teachers by training them well, and by great programs and allowing them to move up the career leader. I find Obama’s plans for teacher preparation and support to be more realistic and more beneficial to students.
The other aspect of this debate that really was interesting to me was the talk about NCLB. Obama’s goal is to close the achievement gap, and to have qualified teachers. McCain’s goals are similar. The difference is that McCain wants the assessment to stay the same, so consistent evaluation can take place. Obama has done research of other countries that have high achieving students, and they do other assessments than the standardize tests. Obama wants to incorporate this in NCLB, and I think that this is a great idea. I never thought that one single test is an adequate measure of a student’s educational level or performance. There are students that are so smart, and score poorly, and visa versa. Filling in bubbles is not an adequate way to measure a student’s ability. I feel that doing a portfolio assessment and standardize test allows for a well rounded look at a student. I think that this may have a lot of issues of failing schools succeed again, because it is not just one test. McCain does make a good point that it is hard to assess consistently, however Obama has seen other high level countries do portfolio assessments (inquiry science, technology, ect.) in a consistent way and wants to bring similar ways to the US education system. This is something that I am going to look forward to see if this will change, because NCLB is in need of a modification.
Sarah, I too am concerned with the reward/merit system that was discussed in the debate. Although I feel that teachers can be evaluated and rewarded in some way, I feel that this proposed system is unfair. I do not think that teachers should be rewarded based on student performance. There are too many circumstantial issues that arise on a day-to-day basis, as well as long-term problems that occur.
I am also concerned about that idea to reward high-performing college students with grants and extra opportunities to broaden their experiences. Both candidates expressed interest in these types of programs, but I think Obama's stance is more desirable. McCain was based too heavily on scores and dollar amounts, whereas Obama was concerned about the broad perspective of educational training opportunities. However, I feel that both candidates need to also consider the higher education students with fewer resources who may also be eligible for these programs, despite possible lower scores or performances. I think that both of the candidate's stances on this issue rely too heavily on 'top percentages and high achievers'. I sort of feel that lower achieving students can also benefit from these types of experiences.
I also feel very strongly about the Headstart and Early Headstart programs. Both candidates agree with the importance of this issue, however McCain was said to have supported cutting three billion dollars from these programs. Whether this can be proven or not, just the idea that it could have been mentioned worries me. Early childhood education is the first educational experiences that our children encounter and is vital to the success of our children.
I'm glad to see that several of you have taken the time to watch the debate and to reflect thoughtfully on the issues raised by the representatives of McCain (Keegan) and Obama (Darling-Hammond). While the candidates agreed on some of the issues, it was also clear that Obama is ready to break away from the educational policies of the Bush administrations in more substantive ways -- including NCLB. Now that we know the result of the election, I think we can expect some serious changes in the coming years in federal policy, and that these changes will have a definite impact on what happens in schools and in classrooms.
It will be interesting to see who Obama appoints as his Secretary of Education. It may be Linda Darling-Hammond. Arne Duncan, the head of Chicago Public Schools, has also been mentioned, as well as Colin Powell, though I'm not sure what his qualifications would be. Whoever it is, I hope that education policy reform will be able to push its way to the top (or near the top) of Obama's agenda, but that will be difficult when the economy, two wars, the environment, health care, and immigration will all need or deserve attention as well.
What I would most like to see is a re-framing of the conversation away from "accountability" (which has come to mean test scores) and AYP and punishing schools, and toward a discussion of what schooling in a democracy should look like. Of course, this should include being accountable -- it is wrong to allow schools serving poor kids to languish while those serving the wealthy excel -- but that doesn't have to mean a narrow, test-driven vision. It can mean demanding a more well-rounded education where teachers are seen as professionals, not clerks to carry out someone else's directives. And it can mean looking beyond the school's walls and making policy and funding changes in other areas that impact how students perform in school (health care is one good example that several of you picked up on from the debate).
From my point of view, we've been sliding down a pretty deep hole over the past 8 years when it comes to school policy, and I am hopeful that we can now begin to crawl out. It's going to take time, and a lot of work and commitment, but I'm excited about the possibilities.
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